It is a topic that generated most of the discussions in our German forum during the last years. Should we show an emergency landing scene on our airport? How would a visitor react who experienced this in real life? As a compromise, our current plan is that we only showcase a Space Shuttle emergency touch-down at Knuffingen Airport, with lots of fire fighters, police, etc. What is your opinion?
In addition we think of a military plane, like a Hercules, with a motor drop-out which also gets the attention of fire brigades and all but touches down safely...

Erhard

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US-Modules in N eMail: erhard(at)minirails(dot)de

Hello Erhard,
I think an emergency landing are not good.
A civil Airplane are can remember some of your Visitors on a Flight.
With a military plane have the Team of the MiWuLa enough information about the Planes?

Regards
Thomo

Well it wouldn't be a problem with us folks in the UK! I think people love stuff like this really, as long as there is a happy ending!
Like your alternatives with military / space shuttle - although if space shuttle lands I think it should be an old battered USSR equivalent (Boran?) It would be lovely if the AN225 had to visit Knuffingen Airport to pick the shuttle up too

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Olly.

HI i feel that it would be a good idea to show an emergency landing and how a bad problem can be resolved with a great emergency crew. This would be great to see the fire crew and all the other emergency services in action.

I see very few problems showing an emergency landing. After all, you do have the emergency services responding to building fires and I'm sure many more people have personal experiences with them than emergency airliner landings.
As for an emergency space shuttle landing. Could this really happen at Knuffingen Airport? Is it on a route the shuttle would take?

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Get off the line Bobby!

G´day poliss,


Why not, it´s the Miniatur Wonderland.

See yaa
Thirsty1 Work

Well I was thinking that an emergency landing could be a rather unpleasant "surprise" for a visitor that had such an experience!
But still it could be an emergency landing for reported bad weather,health reasons and not due to mechanical failures (wheel,engine etc.)
On the other hand a mechanical failure on a Hercules (military plane) has an inferior "impact" as this is a plane that can fly safely with one engine less and has some possible "scenic" advantages e.g visible smoke and fire effects.
If however still this is considered an "offensive" scene I would suggest an emergency landing for "highjacking" , i.e. a safe landing but still a number of various vehicles in the scene.

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There are two ways to do things:
"The right and the wrong"

Cologne Airport is also listed for Space Shuttle emergency landings.
It travels around the world in about 1 hour - so any place is near it's route.

AFAIK there are at least 2 Shuttle airports in the USA - and if bad weather is a problem, they often extend the flight by 1 or 2 days.
I think they never had a shuttle land outside the USA - but for a Wonderland that would be OK ...

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Have fun!
Tom

An emergency landing is a pretty cool idea, but how would one stage such a thing? As an American, how about a landing by ‘Air Force One? Preceded by a fleet of Green Military C-130 cargo planes and a motorcade of ‘SUVs & presidential limousines. I can see it now; the military planes start coming in for a landing, and everyone starts asking ‘WHAT’S GOING ON HERE?

there are 3 sites in the US that the shuttle has used for landings.

Kennedy Space Center, Florida
White Sands, New Mexico
Edwards Air Force Base, California

they typically will extend flights if they can when weather is a concern, as it
extends the turn around time when they have to piggy back the shuttle on the 747
to send it back to Florida. ( There's an Idea...)

They have a list of airports around the world with sufficient length runways. But the
chief problem with landing in Germany would probably be with how far north it is. The
the further north the runway is from the equator the less likely the airport is
to be reachable from the shuttles orbit.

Consider it this way, in my opinion many poeple are more likely to consider this as a technological marvel in if it is in small scale in the wunderland, it is not like something to do with terrorists is it, so ther should be no problem.
In fact there are hundreds of programs on many channels in the uk about extreme crashes of all kinds and survivals. To most people it is entertainment of a different kind, if you know what I mean.

Must it be sent back?
Space Shuttles will be taken out of service soon.
And this is Wonderland.

Just image NASA donates one Space Shuttle to a German museum and the final landing will be in Germany, at Knuffingen Airport.
Completely unrealistic (*) - but would be fun to see.

(*) I presume there is a lot of equipment in a Space Shuttle they would remove before giving it to a museum and therefore would rather land it in the USA.

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Have fun!
Tom

hmm yes. Kind of pointless to have a single flight after all that work. Saying that imagine if they recreated the take-off somewhere else and then let it land at a time that one would be expected to make there way round to the airport - sort of scheduled every hour or so... now that would be impressive!

I would also like to see the odd plane zooming across the roof in wonderland I am sure they have discussed such an idea..

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Olly.

When the space shuttle has landed, it can be loaded onto a 747 and fly away.
Or it can be loaded onto a truck and drive away (not really realistic).

Or it can move into a hangar and disappear. And one hour later it'll land again, last flight, donated to a museum, moved into a hangar, ...

Or it can take off like an ordinary plane; not realistic, but this is wonderland.

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Have fun!
Tom

Here's map showing Space Shuttle Orbits:
http://reference.wolfram.com/legacy/app ... ery_52.gif

So I think that Germany and Knuffingen are potentially within reach.

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Have fun!
Tom

Hello, everybody,

yes, Germany is in range for emergency shuttel landings, there are at least three sites certified for this:

Köln-Bonn Airport (Colgone-Bonn), Latitude about 51° N
München Airport (Munich) and
Ingolstadt-Manching air force base.

Maybe it's to do with the shuttle's orbit, so the northernmost point is still too far south to reach Hamburg (and / or Knuffingen).
But, what the heck, you said it: It's wonderland!

Regards

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Micha W. Muehr

there are other extreme near polar orbits taken by the shuttles and the great thing about this winged vehicle is that it can choose wherever it can land! unlike uncontrollable ballistic capsules one shuttle flight's reentry occured waaaay south of the Kennedy Space Center!! it made a wide turn in reentry over the Gulf of Mexico.

very nice if done with an emergency message over PA system warning of the Shuttle requesting landing minutes before landing.


as a space shuttle buff i can refer you folks to what i know about the orbiters and of course refer you to people i know who has experience as well in the space shuttle scale details and other operations though done in card paper.

at least an aerospace emergency with a successfull ending is a lot more enjoyable. as per other posters mentioned damaged aircraft dont appeal too much.


judging the videos, the audience had an audible response to the shuttle a response that is beautiful..


p.s. suggest make the orbiter touchdown earlier on the runways so as it can maximize the length. yeah shuttle commanders are THAT good.

p.s.s the orbiter you have has missing elevon surfaces.

thats also a brilliant idea but of course unlike the shuttle its a scarier surprise though.
usually news about US presidents's visit would be like months in advance

make the 130's or galaxies land one runway apart in great precision but i know it cant be done with gerrit's system.


as for the shuttle, it might be well very difficult to simulate the Mate-De-Mate hoisting system for the shuttle, but would be magnificent in fact the show the audience the shuttle's lesser known procedures other than landing and launch.

how bout this:
one day, a radio static is heard plus the quindar tones of a space vehicle communication system reqst emergency landing from Knuffingen tower(Space Shutttle ____ on final approach course to Runway__ of Knuffingen airport in germany.. ), and the Orbiter lands and closes the airport for half an hour to clear off noxious fuels used in the thrusters and tugs pull and stow the orbiter in a secure hangar
and on Airport's local TV system videos of astronauts in orange space suits disembarking, happy and being interviewed and accomoddated at the airport's lounge

and the next day the Shuttle Carrier 747 comes in, takes the shuttle on its back using a makeshift crane(hmm lets say courtesy of Lufthansa Technik)flies back to KSC the next day, but with a low saluting flyby over the runway as thanks to the men and women of Knnufingen..